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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
332
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Posted - 2012.01.24 16:56:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am surprised at the amount of butthurt "don't change anything ever" attitudes that are present among the Eve community. If you never change anything, nothing will ever improve. I know that "if it ain't broke don't fix it", but just because it's not broken for you doesn't mean it's not broken. There is only so much HTFU you can toss at newbies before they give up and go do something else, and Eve is badly in need of new blood.
Chill, people, and give it a chance.
Now, to answer the thread:
Taipion wrote:Do you like the new names?
Was it a good step?
Was it necessary?
Clear HELL NO on all 3 from myself, but what about YOU?!?
Yep.
In my opinion, yes.
Depends on your point of view. For vets it's not, but it's one of those little things(tm) that can really bug newbies.
Quote:so i typed "trauma" into market search instead of "scourge"
i get all missiles in eve???
Try "trauma heavy", or "trauma assault". I, for one, find that far more convenient. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
332
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Posted - 2012.01.24 17:15:00 -
[2] - Quote
Korinne wrote:It's not so much a 'don't change anything' attitude as much as a 'don't change anything for no reason'. The latter seems to be all that CCP does in the present; changing things for the sake of changing things in a way that adds virtually nothing to the game other than headaches, providing the corporate suits with a small amount of 'feeling good because we did something'.
Other than Incarna, which was a misconceived piece of crap, I have not seen anything CCP has done recently that has not had solid reasoning behind it.
On the topic at hand, I feel that many vets don't see the change as necessary because they are lacking the perspective to. We (established players) are already used to the missile names, and don't see any issue with remembering Thorn, Bloodclaw, Scourge and the others. We look at newbies and go "just HTFU and memorize them".
While varied missile names adds a sort of feeling of diversity to missiles, a newbie really isn't going to go "aw sweet, the missiles are so diverse, I can't wait to learn what they're all called"... most likely, anyway. They are more likely to go "why would I even bother".
Additionally, all the varied missile names are relics of a time when missile types were not locked into launcher types, so "I'm loading Scourges" meant "I'm loading kinetic heavy missiles" rather than "I have a HML fit and am loading kinetic missiles". There's a subtle difference there, which provides some extra reason to name the missile damage types rather than the damagetype+size combination.
So far as the MWD/AB name changes, I think they make a lot of sense. I would be fine with fancy names for them if they made any degree of sense. Take "Cold-gas Arcjet Thrusters" vs "Catalyzed Cold-Gas Arcjet Thrusters", for example. What the heck do you catalyze about an afterburner that makes it bend space and time?! Alternatively, how does putting four LiF Fueled Booster Rockets on a ship (to turn them into Quad LiF Fueled Booster Rockets) do the same thing? It makes no sense.
I would have preferred to have some "sensical" names and meta-search, but eh. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
332
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Posted - 2012.01.24 17:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
Din Chao wrote:Considering color has always been a pretty simple indicator of what a missile does, this seems entirely unnecessary.
7-10% of men are colorblind. I happen to be one of them. I do not see your point. (ba dum kssh)
Quote:
The change to the propulsion mods is equally pointless, as none of us are forced to learnd them all at once. You start with 1mn, move on to 10mn, then 100mn. Tere's plenty of time to learn the 2 or 3 meta names for each size as you progress. And the new names, as has already been pointed out, don't even make sense.
The old ones didn't make much more sense, either.
Korinne wrote:You make it sound like such an insurmountable feat, when it really isn't. Besides, when did requesting a bit of effort become such a bad thing?
Rote memorization for the reason of "just because" or for "effort" is pretty much one of the most unfun things ever (at least in my opinion). To have unnecessary amounts of it be a requirement for starting out in a game can make it a giant turn-off.
Try to guess why I avoided touching missiles for my entire first year of play. That's right, the inane naming scheme.
Edited for bad wording |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
332
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Posted - 2012.01.24 18:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
Korinne wrote:To sound somewhat trollish, it isn't 'just because', it's to weed out the lame and the weak. I personally don't want to play a game where everything is spoon fed to you, the reward feels proportionally greater to the amount of effort required to obtain it.
I always thought the hard part of Eve was supposed to be the fact that it's complex by virtue of mechanics, not by virtue of meaningless verbiage.
Calling it a "Thorn Rocket" or a "Trauma Rocket" makes no difference to knowing not to use it if your targets are frigates using afterburners... oh, my bad, I meant "cold-gas arcjet thrusters". |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
332
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Posted - 2012.01.24 18:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Korinne wrote:And then the prototype and experimental stuff can explode in your face, as such things are prone to do.
If you overheat it too much, yeah, it will. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
332
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 18:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
Razin wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I always thought the hard part of Eve was supposed to be the fact that it's complex by virtue of mechanics, not by virtue of meaningless verbiage.
This "meaningless verbiage" is the language of EVE. This effort of simplifying it for the lowest common denominator achieves nothing but blandness and additional verbiage. Now, instead of saying Y-T8 or Quad LiF, you have to say Experimental 10MN MicroWarpdrive or Prototype 100MN MicroWarpdrive; or instead of saying Scourge or Terror, you have to say Trauma Heavy or Trauma Heavy Assault; ect. You've not only added necessary verbiage pollution, you've also made it dryer, blander, and more average. You've dumbed down the world of EVE with your misguided concern for a nubie underachiever who will leave anyway because he/she can't have instant gratification in our game. Nice going.
I am not CCP, nor do I work for them (as much as I'd like to).
I have never seen anyone refer to the meta modules by name. It's more to the tune of:
Quote:
A > you should use a meta MWD on your fit
B > which one?
A > Y-Ts tend to be cheap on the market.
Replace "Y-Ts" with "experimentals" and you've got the same thing. I really see no long-term loss of "language of Eve".
The missile complexity of the naming shouldn't even need the extra word, since presumably the person asking about the missiles already knows what sort of launchers he's using. Just like you tell a Rifter with autocannons to get "EMP" and he knows to get "EMP S", you can tell a Drake with HMLs to get "Trauma" and he knows to get "Trauma Heavy Missile" because nothing else fits in there. If it were the old style of launchers where you could put heavy missiles in heavy assault launchers (or whatever it was, I'm not that old), then yes, this would be an unnecessary addition of complexity. As there is a 1-to-1 mapping of launcher to missile type now, it does not. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
333
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 18:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
Razin wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:
I am not CCP, nor do I work for them (as much as I'd like to).
Not surprised you found it hard to tell I was speaking to CCP.
You quoted me, and were responding to my post, so it logically follows you were speaking to me.
Razin wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:I have never seen anyone refer to the meta modules by name.
I have.
That's good for you. You know some people who like to hear themselves say big words and feel good about it. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
333
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 19:04:00 -
[8] - Quote
Razin wrote:
I quoted you as a typical misguided supporter of this change to demonstrate the point to CCP, as was evidenced by the content of my post. Clearly your 'logic' failed you.
Or maybe we're just using different forum etiquette guidelines and there's no need for insult hurling.
No, that can't be right, this is the Eve forums. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
333
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 19:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
Razin wrote:
I agree I was a bit forceful. Just that this change really struck me as offensively unnecessary and ill thought out, when it could have been everything for everyone. Brought back the feeling of the Incarna fiasco and all that came with it.
It's chill. I can sort of see where you are coming from, and it's more reasonable than just the people going "wah, I want my catalyzed cold-gas arcjet thrusters back". I agree that it's not a 100% perfect solution, but it demonstrates CCP is willing to do something about weird/confusing naming, and searching difficulties.
As it stands now, if you search for "1MN Afterburner" you only get the meta 0 and 5 modules. I would definitely oppose this change to the names if searching the market for "1MN Afterburner" brought up "Cold-gas Arcjet Thrusters" in addition to the other two mods. CCP appear to be moving in that direction (assets search), and I do hope they use more interesting names when they reach the point where metadata search is ubiquitous, but as a midterm solution I am okay with the naming changes. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
333
|
Posted - 2012.01.24 20:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Taipion wrote:...Petrus Blackshell, honestly, how much is CCP paying you for your efforts?!
My NDA prevents me from revealing a number, but it's enough for me to lose all the T1 Rifters I want, forever.
Taipion wrote:
Soon there is no substance left in EVE, just because of CCPs greed, yep, THIS is NEX 2.0! This is the next step to get out more money off EVE at the cost of us players!
Yes, because some purely aesthetical changes to the naming scheme are equivalent to creating a microtransaction system encouraging more people to buy PLEX.
I don't even know why I bother being a forum warrior mercenary, sometimes. Oh wait, that's right. The pay. |
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Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
334
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Posted - 2012.01.24 20:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Taipion wrote:
It is not "purely aesthetical", but as a CCP Fainboy / Dev-Alt / Troll you might not see that.
I am glad that me liking Eve gets you this riled up. No seriously, it gives me joy.
Taipion wrote:
Having individual names for all things means more complexity, like a real game should be.
Nope, just means more tediousness, having to check the module's icon, or (for colorblind people) having to check the item's attributes. The game and its mechanics (and thus its complexity) are absolutely unaffected by the change in name.
There is a difference between tediousness (fitting 100 Vagabonds and putting them in the corp hangar) and complexity (manufacturing a single Vagabond and its fittings from scratch). Learn it.
Taipion wrote:
Having the same names for everything means less substance, it is more like a browser game would be.
You have clearly never heard of OGame. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
334
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Posted - 2012.01.24 21:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ni Cho wrote:Do you like the new names? Sure, prehaps because I don't really give a **** what they are called.
Was it a good step? I can see how it could be easier for new player to learn the damage types of missiles.
Was it necessary? I don't know. I have been playing long enough to really not need to learn the damage types by name. As said for my second answer if seems like it would be helpful for newer players.
Basically all the rage for a name change is so overblown. Even more crazy is CCP color coded the damn things. How dare they make it easy for new people, and we should rage cause we had to learn stupid names and a lot of them.
Hey man, back in our day we walked 3 miles uphill to school both ways, and when we got to school... we memorized missiles is what we did!
Kids these days... |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
334
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Posted - 2012.01.24 21:58:00 -
[13] - Quote
OlRotGut wrote:Razin wrote:Petrus Blackshell wrote:The game and its mechanics (and thus its complexity) are absolutely unaffected by the change in name. Complexity in terms of game mechanics is unaffected. However, complexity in terms of simulation of an immersive world sure is. It is unreasonable to believe that in such a geographically and culturally varied world as EVE all of the manufactured missiles are named the same just because they carry similar warheads. It's just one more break in suspension of disbelief. If CCP were'n concerned with variety (as current changes clearly aren't), why not just append the damage type to the old name and be done with it? This change could have been made to satisfy both the usability concerns and the fluff concerns with such a small amount of additional effort on the part of CCP devs... Instead, CCP happened with a vengeance. Simulation of an immerse world? 1000+ ships in a space station that obviously isn't scaled to handle that amount? planets that do not orbit the stars in the solar system? magically re-spawning pirates and 'roids? i mean i could go on and on... that is a weak stance to the renaming argument for certain.
Or the fact there are Y-T8 but not Y-T9 or Y-T7 microwarpdrives. Honestly, the module names make sense to be more generalized, if only to not give the wrong impression. Some special descriptions for meta modules would be nice, though. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
337
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Posted - 2012.01.24 23:06:00 -
[14] - Quote
Solved all your problems forever.
You're welcome. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
351
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Posted - 2012.01.25 18:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
CausticS0da wrote:
I hate everything you've said. It's people like you that will kill Eve. You only think you're right because you have no understanding of what makes an outstanding MMO.
When the vets leave and all that's left are the noobs, it's gg.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=dRFUoqA_vm0#t=518s |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
353
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Posted - 2012.01.26 04:49:00 -
[16] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:Ok... so it is fanboy then :)
You will be pretty alone with your opinion here, because you're saying that entire existing EvE community should adapt to new names just because new players have problems learning the item names on day 1.
That will not fly.
He's not alone. The old naming scheme was inane. It had some "sci fi charm" to it, but not worth it for some of us (and apparently not for CCP). |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
353
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Posted - 2012.01.26 06:24:00 -
[17] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
There is no point to this besides a failure to see the good in the change due to an overblown sense of elitism around a game.
This. |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
374
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Posted - 2012.01.27 00:21:00 -
[18] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
And at that I'm done. When you get back to the issue instead of posts with pure insults I'll be back to continue the conversation should I feel so inclined.
Don't bother. This whole purpose of this thread is not discussion of the new missile names. It's him bitching about it, gathering bitching from others who don't like it (check the OP), and insulting anyone trying to have a reasonable argument as to why maybe this is better. |
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